"Struggle Street": Raising Independent Archers w/ Jarryd Greitschus of Rogue Archery

Jarryd_Edited_FullVIDEO

Manisha: Hello, Archery Family. From the Archery Parent Podcast, I am Manisha. Today, we have guest Jarryd Greitschus of Rogue Archery in Australia. Jarryd is the Director and Founder of Rogue Archery. He also is the Director of a High-Performance development squad.

Jarryd: Thank you. It's great to talk to you.

Manisha: We first met at the World Archery Youth Championships in Winnipeg in…was it August of last year, I believe?

Jarryd: Yeah, August, last year for the Youth World Championships.

Manisha: And just tell me, how long was that trip for you from Australia with your team?

Jarryd: It was about 40 hours for us, and we didn't get there without its hiccups. And, I think almost every team had some form of delay or interruption there because of the whole story about Air Canada going on strike, wasn't there?

Manisha: It was.

Jarryd: Yeah, it was about a 40-hour transit for us coming from Australia, unfortunately we didn't even get our whole team there.

I’ve got to say, they handled it like absolute champs. You know, me and the other coaches and managers were stressing out, but the Archers just got on with it, and I was really impressed with how they took it in their stride.

Manisha: And they will have life lessons that they can carry into any opportunity now.

I am so happy to have you on the podcast because as we were chatting in Winnipeg, one of the things I learned about you was how aligned your philosophies with Rogue Archery are with the Archery Parent Podcast.

We're going to talk about Archer-Parent agreements. We're going to talk about the Happiness Paradox. We're going to talk about Struggle Street.

You went from High Performance to the coaching phase of your life.

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: Where did it come from that you wanted to be a high-performance coach, but also coach athletes that are just beginning, as you've done for over 3,000 athletes?

Jarryd: Yeah, so I was always coaching, but it started off in a very casual capacity. You know, I would be training myself, and then I'd have, one guy I'm coaching, and we're just training together, and I'm helping them out. And then there was two people, and then it was five people.

And, then at a certain point it got to a stage where I always loved coaching, and my coach himself was a good mentor for me and always encouraged me to help other people.

And, it got to a stage where I had to structure it a little bit because it wasn't just a handful of people anymore, it was actually, "oh, I have to allocate time to this”. And so I started running a little squad, and then they got good results, and so then everyone wanted to be part of it, and it just kind of exploded from there.

And originally, this concept of Rogue Archery came around when, there was a number of things happening simultaneously. I was pursuing Archery competitions myself and struggling to juggle the training commitments, plus my financial commitments, plus, my work and study, and my personal life, and I had this idea that, oh, well, you know, coaching can be a way for me to kind of self-fund and self-sponsor, going to tournaments and buying equipment that I needed and training whilst I'm helping these people.

But then simultaneously this political drama with my Archery club that really it affected my Archery career, my ability to train and pursue my goals, but it really clamped down on my ability to coach.

Manisha: Mmm.

Jarryd: And so eventually I realized that if I want to pursue this vision, if I want to create this thing, I can't do it — I can't keep asking for permission and forgiveness from these people who are not aligned with my goals and my vision, and I have to go rogue. I have to go rogue to get it done.

And so that's where, kind of, Rogue Archery came from. I had to break away from the incumbent club and federation a little bit to do that.

Manisha: And so you've mentioned getting involved and building your own community.

Jarryd: Mmm.

Manisha: Let's talk about the importance of the team environment to individual success.

I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit, but…

Jarryd: Mmm….

Manisha: …you are someone who really focuses on contributing to the greater good and contributing to the community…

Jarryd: Yeah

Manisha: ...but also as an individual having successes within that. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jarryd: I'm glad you asked because I think this is super important.

Before I did Archery, I played team sports, and when I was working with my coach, Rick, he also created a little team environment for us to train and we did very well even though it was like a little squad environment.

We pushed each other and we were training buddies, and you had that kind of camaraderie around training and pushing each other, and I always felt that was really important.

And then when that disbanded a little bit, I wanted to create a team that I wanted to be part of. You know, that was, that was always my driving force.

And, that has its challenges, but the benefits are significant because what I've since learned is that one of the drivers for high performance is actually being part of a competitive training environment every day. This is not just for Archery, this is for anything. You know, you can look at, there's this tiny little town in the middle of Eastern Europe that has 30 pro tennis stars and you just realize that, oh, they're in like a little hub, right?

And they're all pushing each other and training at a — at a high level. And so in Australia we're kind of very spread out and we're dispersed and we don't really have that density of competition and, and training and everyone's kind of on their own. And I always wanted to create that for myself and be part of it, and so that's what I've aspired to create through Rogue Archery is that team training environment.

Manisha: So many people think that Archery is an individual sport, and for many, I mean, I'm sure you and…

Jarryd: Mmm.

Manisha: …lots of high performance athletes who are on the line for hours and hours and hours by themselves, it can be isolating sometimes. It can be lonely. And you creating a team environment, a community essentially, is really a way to...

It's much like podcasting actually, where you kind of feel like no one else does it and…

Jarryd: Yep.

Manisha:  …you’re so few and far apart.

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: It, it, it really is so important for an Archer to feel like they're connected to some sort of team, whether it be recreational or high performance, just to not feel like they're on their own.

Jarryd: 100%. And people do think of Archery as a individual sport, but they are 67% wrong because two out of three events at international competitions are, well, teams and mixed teams.

Manisha: True.

Jarryd: So, it is a team sport actually and, yes we train as individuals and you shoot your arrows yourself, but at the end of the day, yeah, it is mostly a team sport and, and we mustn't forget that.

And like I said, the benefits of having a team is going to help everyone be better. And if you want to be a good Archer you need to kind of form your team around you. And it's also a much better place to be rather than, well, I'm sure when we talk about Struggle Street, when you're there alone, it's a hard slog.

Manisha: Oh, definitely. As the parent of an Archer who has been in it for over 11 years now, oh yeah, we've been there for sure.

Jarryd: Been in Archery or been in Struggle Street for 11 years?

Manisha: You know what, you'd have to ask him. But yeah, in Archery for 11 years as an Archery Mom, and yeah, I've seen Struggle Street happen.

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: So before we get to Struggle Street, let's talk about this Happiness Paradox which will…

Jarryd: Hmm….

Manisha: …lead into Struggle Street in a way. So many parents say, "You know what? I just want my Archer to be happy."

Jarryd: Hmm….

Manisha: How can that actually be a disservice to your athlete in performance and in their abilities to believe in themselves?

Jarryd: Yeah, it's really interesting because if you ask a philosopher to define happiness, and if you ask a regular person to define happiness, you actually get very different answers. And I — I’m very interested in the logical and scientific approach to things. And what I found very interesting is that it's actually very difficult to define happiness using biometrics.

You, you can measure someone's heart rate and blood pressure and their brainwaves and hormones, and you can tell just from looking at their physical and biometric state whether they are excited, or you can tell whether they are stressed, you can tell if they're bored, you can tell if they're feeling in love.

But happiness doesn't actually have its own set of biometric cues. And when some researchers tried to define happiness, what they found was that it's actually more of a transient state that could be, you know, you could be excited and happy, or you could be sitting on your couch completely content with the world the way it is and say, "Yep, I'm happy."

And what they found was that it actually overlaps with a lot of other, physical and emotional states of being. But what they all have in common is the absence of suffering. Does that make sense?

Manisha: It's very Dharmic, yes.

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: Yes. Yes.

Jarryd: And, and so what I thought about this was that, you know, yes, happiness is important.

We all want to be happy, but, saying, "I want my kids to be happy," is in other words sort of like saying, "I don't want my kids to suffer."

Manisha: Mm-hmm.

Jarryd: And that also rolls off the tongue, right? We don't want our kids to suffer, except that that's part of the deal, and I think what we should do is redirect the conversation away from pursuing this constant state of blissful happiness towards pursuing fulfillment, and fulfillment comes from growth and contribution, and growth comes from overcoming adversity.

And so you end up with this situation where if you are a parent, you love your child, you see them suffering with something. If you are constantly ready to charge into battle and prevent them from suffering, and what you actually can inadvertently be doing is actually robbing them of the opportunity to overcome adversity and experience that personal growth, and therefore fulfillment.

And that's what sport can give you, you know, beyond just the medals and stuff. It's, it's more than that.

Manisha: There are so many times where, you as a parent can't take that hurt away. You can't take that emotion, that sadness, that frustration. You can't take it away.

Those are opportunities that if you just let it lie with your Archer, they have a coach. It's not your responsibility. They may have a mental performance coach. Those are the people that need to be helping your Archer through moments like that so that they…

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: …can grow, and then they can persevere, and then they can, who knows, have a breakthrough and move on into this other space where they can handle things,

As a parent, it's very hard to watch that. We've experienced it a few times. What can you do as a coach to help an Archer through those times?

Jarryd: Yeah, and, and just touching on something you brought up before is that sometimes it's easy to, again, want to solve suffering and not have them experience those negative emotions, or negative experiences.

But if you think about your own life, I'm sure you can think of times where you went through adversity or experienced tough times that were very formative for yourself and led to character growth and lessons learned that don't come otherwise. And so it is difficult, but I think if we reframe it in terms of trying to solve that difficulty, it's trying to equip them to solve it themselves and to handle whatever can come at them.

And I think the approach from a parent shouldn't be to solve their problems, but should be to try and help their child overcome difficulty with the minimum possible intervention.

Manisha: Hmm.

Jarryd: Now, that means, I'll just restate that for clarity, because I said "minimum possible", but as much as necessary might be the case, because there are definitely times when a parent might need to step in.

But the goal should be to do it with the minimum intervention for them to still overcome that adversity, and then that way they're going to feel supported, they know you're there for them at the end of the day, but they're also going to feel empowered to overcome struggles themselves. And I think that's also going to carry with them. We're not just talking about Archery here, we're talking about maybe when their Archery career's over, what they do in their careers and their relationships going forward.

These skills, will translate across all domains in their life.

Manisha: How do you know when an Archer is miserable because they are not enjoying Archery anymore…

Jarryd: Hmm….

Manisha: …and they're in Struggle Street where they are moving towards growth? How do you know what the differences are? What do you see as a coach?

What could a parent identify as potentially an Archer on their way out, or an Archer experiencing difficulty moving into growth?

Jarryd: That's a difficult one, and I actually think that's largely for the Archer to explore.

And I've had some conversations recently with my students around this who are struggling with that, and I don't think it's up to me as the coach or maybe even the parent to dictate that for the Archer. It's important that they're supported to do Archery and/or anything for their own reasons.

And, there's so many ways that you could tell. I mean, especially the, the better you know the Archer, the better you can understand this. Like, I've had one Archer at the moment who's doing very, very well, but has had a very volatile year with injury and other things disrupting that, and is just completely burnt out at the moment, and is just not in….

He's going through the motions, he's doing his training, but he's just not feeling it, right? And so we've got some big goals, and so we're going for it. But, you know, one of the things that I've encouraged Archers to do is to make sure that you have something in your life other than Archery, whatever that is.

I don't care if you paint watercolours, or you play chess, or you go to the movies, or you play video games, or you, you know, whatever. When Archery's really difficult, or Archery's a bit down, or you're having a disappointing time, and Archery is life, then life is just Struggle Street.

You know, you're just there everywhere. But often if you have a bit of a diverse self-identity and diverse interests, then any one thing can be up and down, but overall you, you'll be okay. You'll get through it. It's like having a diversified stock portfolio, you know? You've got to spread your energy out a little bit.

And what I've encouraged this particular Archer to do is to do something fun in life that is not Archery. Like, take a day. You can't just sit in your undies and eat junk food and play video games. Like, go out, do something fun, but it can't be anything to do with Archery.

And often that's like a little purge of just the stress and realizing that, oh yeah, life exists outside of this. And I like that as a little tool to just reset, and also to allow the Archer some freedom to, you know what, it's okay to put the bow down for a little while, and then when you're ready to pick it up, you should want to.

Okay? And I've had this in my own Archery career, where I've gone sometimes months or even maybe years without shooting or training properly, and then for me, I always come back to it. You know, I always want to pick up the bow, and I want my Archers to experience that as well. I want them to be at training, not because I'm twisting their arm or their parents are forcing them to be there, but because they want to be there and they are pursuing a goal that's meaningful for themselves.

Manisha: I'm glad you brought up breaks and being okay with that, because I, I've experienced Archers who are so obsessed and so driven that taking a break almost…

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: …seems like a mistake, and they don't see it as a productive time that growth still happens. I'm glad you brought that up, as well as hobbies, other interests. 

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: Because the, the specialization is positive, but it also has negatives if you feel like you can't do anything else. Actually, Crispin Dueñas… (https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/the-long-game-why-4x-olympian-crispin-duenas-believes-in-leaving-them-alone/)

Jarryd: I agree, yeah.

Manisha: …and I just had a great conversation about this, and why it's so important, especially for high performance athletes, Olympic athletes, to do other things so that you can still be, I'll use the word happy…

Jarryd: Yes.

Manisha: …or content or fulfilled.

Jarryd: Yes ...

Manisha: In other parts of your life, even when Archery is not maybe going so great.

Jarryd: I listened to that podcast ('THE LONG GAME: WHY 4X OLYMPIAN CRISPIN DUEÑAS BELIEVES IN "LEAVING THEM ALONE”' https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/the-long-game-why-4x-olympian-crispin-duenas-believes-in-leaving-them-alone/). It was brilliant, and I think he said it better than I can that about having other things in your life, and I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Manisha: Thank you for listening. I appreciate that. Let's talk about Struggle Street. We've mentioned it, but we haven't actually defined it. Can you please share what Struggle Street encompasses and what it is?

Jarryd: Yeah. When you start Archery you can experience a very rapid rate of progress. If you think about your very first Archery lesson, you can just learn how to hold the bow correctly. You can just learn how to anchor, and you'll see improvement.

You can learn how to use the sight, and you'll see improvement. You can then just, like, upgrade your equipment, and you'll see improvement. And you can just, you know, then you learn a new technique and you get, improve your alignment, and you just see this constant and steady rate of progress. And when someone is seeing progress, motivation is never challenged, right?

So it's never an issue. But you can't continue that rate of progress forever. And as you move up and up the development hierarchy, and as you develop your skills, then what happens is the progress becomes smaller, it takes longer, and it requires a disproportionately higher amount of effort required to get those marginal gains in performance.

Okay? And at some point, you will hit a plateau. It doesn't really matter what skill level, like everyone will hit a plateau. And what a plateau is, is where you have got to the cap of your current ability, skills, technique, knowledge, training. Like it's got you to there, but it's not going to get you any further, so something has to change.

And so Struggle Street, I think, is often when an Archer gets to that level where they've kind of tried everything that they know. And it's often characterized by someone saying, "I've tried everything." It's like they haven't tried everything, they've just tried everything that they know. And often they can experience this period of stagnation or maybe even performance decline, and that's really hard.

That's often where people have to reexamine their motivations, why they're doing the sport. They feel like they're not making progress, and they kind of maybe lose a little bit of, of hope that what they're doing is going to lead them to be better. They might also see things like their peers who they were beating before maybe start to do better than them, and this can also challenge their self-identity a little bit.

And I think that's how I would describe Struggle Street for most Archers. What do you think?

Manisha: I actually have a question about what you said before I reply about what I think. I, I agree. Struggle Street can be different things for different people, for different Archers. Yes, I, I so agree with what you're saying about you've tried everything that you know.

Jarryd: Mm-hmm.

Manisha: And just branching off of that, if your plateau is lasting, you know, not a week, not a month, but a season…

Jarryd: Mm-hmm….

Manisha: …would you say that maybe that's a good time that an Archer checks with another coach? Because coaches only know what they know and sometimes they maybe don't have the experience to move an Archer through a certain thing.

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: If someone's in Struggle Street for an extended period of time or a plateau, what are the ways that they can move past that if they aren't able to try new things because their coach maybe doesn't have those solutions?

Jarryd: That's definitely a possibility, but I wouldn't encourage Archers at the first sign of, you know, Struggle Street to Coach Shop and start shopping around and changing coaches.

I would say you should work closely with your coach and make sure you can have an open conversation with them about it. About, you know, that you feel like you're plateauing and your coach might be able to offer you some insight as to why they think it is. It might often be things, like there's objective things.

So sometimes with my squad, we do weekly training plans. And so when an Archer comes to me sometimes and says, "Oh, Coach, I'm really disappointed with my performance. I'm just not improving." I say, "Fantastic. Show me your last 12 weeks of training plans." And then, you know, what you expect to see is that, okay, their arrow numbers have dropped, or they've stopped doing SPT for whatever reason, or they haven't been doing strength and conditioning, or something's going on like that.

But you know what I see more often than not when someone comes to me and asks that question? They haven't done a training plan. They've just been doing stuff without - they, they've kind of fallen off the routine and they've lost their structured training. Now, that's not necessarily the coach's fault, but the coach can help them get back on track.

And having those systems can often help. There's definitely a time where you might outgrow your coach and you might need to, you know, go beyond that, but I wouldn't say that that's Struggle Street. I think that's where you feel like you've exploited all of your coach's knowledge and expertise, and they've got you to a certain level, but they can't take you further.

That's, I think, the time when, yeah, there's a absolutely a time where you might need to move on from that coach in a, you know, professional, respectful way. What I think is also should be done more in this sport is, is also bringing in a second opinion.

You know, you might have your primary coach and then have someone else can come in with a fresh set of eyes and just look at things from a different perspective and say, "Hey, you know what? You've tried this and this. Have you tried that?" Or, "You know what? You're doing this well, but you could do it this way just a little differently."

And that can often be like a little B12 shot into the Archer's progress, just to bring in a set of fresh eyes. I really like that as a way because it also encourages coaches to cross-pollinate ideas and methods and training, and everyone learns from that experience.

I would prefer to, as a coach myself, I would prefer to engage in that sort of relationship rather than have Archers constantly jumping around.

Manisha: How open would a coach be? Because I've seen coaches who are not open to that, but definitely not open to the idea that maybe they have come to the end of their knowledge.

How open do you think, say, if you take 100 coaches, what number…

Jarryd: Good question.

Manisha: …out of there would maybe be open to that, bringing in another set of eyes, and then working and, you know, leapfrogging off of that or platform diving off of that?

Jarryd: You know, what? What I've experienced is so interesting because at the lower levels, like at the community levels of coaches, particularly sometimes with volunteer coaches, it's so interesting because sometimes coaching can be really ego-driven.

Manisha: Yes.

Jarryd: And so their Archer's just like a little feather in their cap that they wear and, you know, they've put a lot of time into it. And, there's also this feeling that when you're a volunteer coach that, you know, I've put so much time and effort into this person, and if they leave it's a bit of a hard pill to swallow because you've given up so much and you care about this person. So that's tough.

But then once you get kind of above that level and you deal with more experienced and higher level coaches, they actually seek this kind of feedback and exposure, and they, they welcome it, because they see the benefit both for them and for their Archers.

And so if you walked around at, like, a World Cup and talked to all those coaches, I would say there's probably 90% of coaches would be very open to inviting a second opinion.

But if you walk around a local Archery club, who knows? It depends on the club culture of course, and that, but you would probably get 90% who aren't open to that. So I, I think that there's, it's very individual.

Manisha: I love how you've separated that mindset.

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: You speak the truth, I have to say, from what I've experienced.

So let's talk about parents contributing to the relationship between an Archer and their coach. Let's talk about the Parent-Archer-Coach Triangle. We've talked about it before on the podcast (DR. JENNIFER HARRIS: "SUPER-P" - THE SCIENCE-BACKED SOLUTION FOR SPORTS PARENTS” https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/superp/). What is one responsibility that a parent often takes on that they really shouldn't?

Jarryd: Ooh. Well, we talked before about trying to solve for their child's emotions. I think support is different from, you know, solving their emotional experience. But I think the obvious one, the elephant in the room, is the technical expertise. And that's clearly in the domain of the coach. So that's the line that the parent should just not cross at all, I think.

It's rather an obvious answer, but I think it needs to be said.

Manisha: And you like to, and I do too, let parents know that their role is really support crew. Reo Wilde once said the, "The role of a parent is to be your Archer's biggest super fan." (https://www.instagram.com/reel/C66PR0Qgg-u/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&exln=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==&srtk=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==)

One of the roles that I encourage parents to take on is kind of crudely: feed, water, shelter, pay, and transport.

What do you find that parents will sometimes, in addition to taking on a technical role when they really - that is not in their bandwidth, what are some other things that parents can take on as their own role as support crew, and really revel in it and really do well in it?

Jarryd: I think that's, you know, the main responsibility of the parent is to be the parent. And look after their overall well-being and experience, but not to, yeah, step over the line with the coach.

Manisha: How do you feel about parents sticking around and watching when it comes to lessons?

Jarryd: I think it's okay, provided that the parent does the other things right. So if the parent is not stepping into the realm of technical guidance, you know, you don't want them sitting there on the scope watching every single arrow going thumbs up for a 10 and then thumbs down for a seven or whatever. So you don't want that dynamic going on. You don't want them being a distraction.

Quite often I'll have parents sit on the sideline, read a book or whatever, and just be a presence, and that's quite okay. So I don't think their presence is necessarily a problem, provided that the other roles and responsibilities are respected and observed, if that makes sense.

Manisha: And what have you seen in an Archer when they realize that their parents are really on the scope, on the binoculars? What have you seen from a coach's perspective on the line? How does that affect an Archer's performance, confidence…

Jarryd: Yeah….

Manisha: …and just their well-being during a tournament?

Jarryd: Yeah, it can manifest in a few different ways.

The main way I would say is it cultivates insecurity. It can also manifest into a fear of judgment. Children typically want to impress their parents or have their parents be proud of them. I think that's another topic that's come up on your podcast before. ("DR. JENNIFER HARRIS: "SUPER-P" - THE SCIENCE-BACKED SOLUTION FOR SPORTS PARENTS” https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/superp/) And when the parent's sitting there judging the outcome arrow by arrow, then it it adds another layer of stress to that environment.

Sometimes the Archer will become completely dependent on the parent hanging around, and when they're not there or they can't be there, it does create that insecurity. They don't have their safety blanket anymore, and so they can be a bit lost and not know how to handle it on their own. So I think that's why it's important for parents to, yeah, still stay in that role of support, but be very mindful of their body language, be very mindful of their presence and the feedback that they give to their Archer, that they're still staying in that parent role and not overlapping with the coach and technical and tactical feedback. That's up to the coach. Purely 100%.

Manisha: In your Rogue Archery Development Squad, you are an advocate for agreements between parents and Archers. Why did you go down that road?

Jarryd: Well, I had some negative experiences, as I think every coach has. And, I learned a lot from that because there was a lot of the situations we've been talking about where parents were overstepping their boundaries, and also their parents were modelling the wrong values and behaviours, and that really undermined everything that I was trying to create.

And so what I felt was really important was not just assuming that it was all obvious and we're all on the same page, was to actually get an agreement up front so that if there are any issues, we have some context to deal with it and address it, rather than having a very awkward and difficult conversation down the line.

On the way into the squad, they, what you're referring to is my Parent-Archer-Athlete Agreement, where the parent, the Archer, they sign it, and this is the condition for participation in the squad. And, that sets the precedent very early as to like, this is what we're trying to achieve, and it outlines the things like different scenarios on how to handle it.

Like, what happens when your child is having a tough time and, you know, what happens when you want to move on to a different coach. Here's how to handle that. That's, that's all covered in there.

Manisha: And can you just share some segments of what you feel really is important, and that maybe if someone wants to develop their own agreement, what are important facets or components of an agreement that should be in there.

Jarryd: Yeah. So the main thing that I've put in there is, the first thing is that it's kind of like the latent communication that goes on between the parent and the Archer that's often behind the tournament line or off the tournament line, in the car ride home or at home.

And one of the things that we see is the parent can inadvertently inflate their child's ego, especially when they first start having that moment of success. And I've seen this before where the Archer, when they're a beginner, their parents are just like, "Yeah, go have fun." And then they win national titles, and all of sudden the parent's super proud, of course, and they're telling everyone about how their little Johnny's going to be the next big thing, and he's going to the Olympics, and he's going to be a champion, and he's blah, blah, blah.

And it comes from pride, but what it's doing is it's kind of manifesting into this child's ego, and it's developing the self-identity associated with outcome, and it, it actually makes them very vulnerable.

So one of the things I've put in there is actually just saying it, telling them they're the best, and in your eyes they'll always be the best, which is great, but instead of rewarding the outcome, you know, praise them for their efforts, and for their dedication, and for their hard work, and their perseverance.

And that you can point out to them that those traits have resulted in a great outcome this time. And in the - in phrasing it this way, you're actually reinforcing the values that have led to success, rather than just developing a very vulnerable child who's so focused on the outcome in itself.

Manisha: So how would that be phrased in the agreement?

Jarryd: I've actually outlined scenarios in the agreement. Yeah. So, I'm happy to provide it as a copy of the show notes or anything for anyone who wants to read it. But, yeah, I've just laid out the scenarios that, "Hey, in your eyes they will always be the best, but it's important to communicate with them in this manner."

And so that's the way I phrased it.

Manisha: It's important, too, for the inclusion of communication between a parent and the coach.

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: We know a number of parents who have taken a few different paths to communicating with the coach that have not always been the most positive.

Jarryd: Hmm.

Manisha: And these parents were high maintenance, let's just say that.

Jarryd: Okay.

Manisha: How do you approach that clause in the agreement?

Jarryd: Well I think first of all it's good to acknowledge that most parents are really good with this, most parents. And I think it, it comes from a foundation of trust between the coach and the Archer and the parent. And if they believe that you have their child's best interest at heart, they will come to you with any concerns that they have and so the way that I've written this agreement is actually just explicitly outlining that, hey, fighting all their battles and solving all their problems for them is not the way.

Our job here is to develop them into well-rounded Archers and people, and this is done by sometimes letting them experience and then supporting them to overcome adversity rather than to shield them from it. And that's the way it’s, kind of, implicit in the agreement rather than explicit, but it's by putting this up front.

I've never had a parent read this agreement and go, "No. No, I disagree with this." I want to do whatever, and shield my kid from ever experiencing, any sort of adversity."

They always read it and are like, "Spot on”, “100%, I agree." It sets the precedent on the way in, and then when they have an issue, they will come to you and express it. And if not, what they know is I'm going to come to them.

You know, they're not going to be able to undermine another one of the teammates behind the scenes and foster a rivalry and have it not be dealt with. Like, we're going to have a conversation as a minimum when that happens. So I think, that's why it's in an agreement, is just to completely, clearly in black and white, outline those expectations.

And once everyone's on the same page, I've got to say, I used to be dealing with parent issues all the time, and now it's very rare that we do. And I put it down to just setting the expectations early and essentially establishing that trust between the parent and coach that, “Hey, no, we also have your child's best interest at heart, even if it looks like they're having a bad time, you come and talk to us about it, and this is how we're supporting them.

Manisha: So these briefings, especially before tournaments, not necessarily maintenance or those ongoing…

Jarryd: Mm-hmm….

Manisha: …but discussions between the coach and the parent, with or without the Archer present…

Jarryd: Mm-hmm ...

Manisha: …what purpose does that play in this triangle?

Jarryd: Yeah. So just to clarify, so the agreement is when people are, say, signing up for my training squad, and they're coming to train in a team environment with the squad, they sign this agreement before they enter the team.

And then, what you're talking about is like Parent-Archer-Coach briefings before events. And because I've also worked with quite a few teams where I'm not necessarily coaching personally every Archer in the squad, and so I've always felt that it's important to have that connection early, and outline similar sorts of things.

Primarily, it's the roles and responsibility of the Archer, the coach, and the parent. And what I, the way I like to run those is just to say, "Hey guys, we're going to define roles and responsibilities." And I get the room to tell me, and we put it up on a board, and it engages everyone. And you know what? They all know this stuff. And, I've never had any disagreements or arguments. They all know this stuff just by bringing it out into the open, airing it, making it black and white. There it is on the board. We run through some scenarios like, should the coach pay for your flights? Nope. All right. Well, that's the parent's job.

You know, that's the financial support - the responsibility of the parent. And, there's some overlapping roles and responsibilities because the coach and the parent might as a team might, be, for example, emotionally supporting the Archer in their own way. That's okay.

But there are things that are clearly in the role of coach and clearly in the role of parent, like the technical expertise and tactical guidance. And then there are things purely within the Archer's domain, as well. So I think having those briefings, again, sets the precedent early of what everyone's job is, and it just prevents any issues from down the line from happening.

I would rather do that, before the event, rather than in the heat of battle have to go up and tell some parent to stop interfering.

Manisha: True. You've shared about responsibilities. Can you just talk about some common mistakes that you see parents making?

Jarryd: Yes. The first thing I would say is that, when we talk about mistakes that parents make, every parent has one thing in common, which is they love their kids, right?

So the mistakes they make are always inadvertent, and it's often, a misalignment of these values. Trying to overly protect their kids is probably the most common thing. And I see the, not the mistake, but I was thinking about the most common forms of mistake and what they have in common, and it always has to do with the, as I would say, the latent communication.

So that means the conversation that you're having with the child at home or in the car ride home, and how you're talking about them to other people, and how you're talking to them about other people, because they're always listening, and the parent's the most important role model. And so we touched on some of these before, but I think, the first one is the ego reinforcing.

Overly praising the outcome rather than the the positive traits of the Archer and their dedication, persistence, and consistency, and hard work and everything. And that, yeah, cultivates a lot of insecurity in Archers.

The other thing I think is really easy to do for parents is sometimes model poor sportsmanship.

And I don't think poor sportsmanship is wanting to win. I think where it comes into it, when it crosses a line is when you want someone else to lose, as in you want someone else to fail so that you can win. And so it happens so easy in, in those conversations where the parent might say, "Oh, you know, little Johnny, I hope Joe doesn't come to this competition because then you'll have a chance at winning it."

Or it's, "Oh, you're only two points behind. If he makes a mistake, then you'll have him." Well, hey, that's not reinforcing, that's not empowering your Archer to go out there and fight for the win. That's framing it as someone else has to fail for you to win. And, that’s I think the root of poor sportsmanship, and those little comments and conversations that happen without even thinking about it, they're the biggest common mistakes that I see.

Manisha: With the car ride home, what are the best strategies maybe for a parent. Sometimes it can be very, very quiet.

Jarryd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Manisha: What are some strategies to make it through the car ride?

Jarryd: Yeah. Well, what we do as a team is we practice reflections, and we do this after every event, and ideally we do it as a team, with the coach and Archers before they leave. These are questions that I would encourage parents to ask their kids. There's three questions.

The first one is: "What did you do well?"

And the reason why this is the first question is we're all negatively biased. We're human beings, right? So you might immediately know what you didn't do well, but what did you do well today? Maybe you just stuck with it when it got really difficult.

Maybe you actually had a fantastic performance and hurrah! Maybe you judged the wind well. Maybe your timing was good. Maybe, whatever it is. What's something that you did well today? Maybe you won with grace or lost with humility or vice versa. And so there's always something that you can do well, and it's important to hold them accountable to that reflection because people will often avoid that because it's not immediately obvious.

But so I think practicing that question, and even if they don't know the answer, asking it, because people will constantly answer the question that they're asked. They can't help it. So I can just direct your focus by saying, "What colour is the sky?" "What size socks do you wear?"

You could also ask, "How many mistakes did you make?" And then they'll think about every mistake. And if you ask, "What did you do well?" "What did you do well?" "What did you do well?" Then all of a sudden they'll start searching for the answer. And the questions I think are really influential.

The next question is: "What could you improve?"

And this is very different from what didn't you do well, because it channels it towards a productive reflection. What could you improve? So there's a lesson to be done from today, and it's equally as important if you had a good or poor performance. So the question doesn't change because, you might have done something poorly, but it was completely out of your control.

Maybe you're suffering from a crippling case of target panic, and you know what? You had all these shots where you collapsed and shot through the clicker and had all these problems. But you know what? It's okay. We're just dealing with that in training. that wasn't really your fault, and, that’s, for this event, that's not particularly important.

What could you improve might be, well, I needed to improve my shoulder alignment and my confidence with my anchor, or I needed to maintain a process focus rather than get distracted by the score the whole time. And it could also be something you've already done well, but you could continue to improve. Okay?

And the third question is: "What are you going to do about it?" Or, "what action are you going to take?"

Because the first two reflections are kind of meaningless if it doesn't translate into anything. And so I think if you're not sure what to say, guiding this conversation by those questions is a good place to start.

But also it's okay to just be the parent and, if it's a little bit of awkward silence, you can judge whether or not they need some emotional space just to process the day, or maybe they've just drained their social battery because they've had to interact with people all day. It's been six hours, they're tired, and they're hungry, and they're, they're ready for bed.

It's okay just to provide that general support and not have to jump in and know the exact right words to say.

Manisha: Do you advocate, with these reflections, to write them down in a journal or a - not necessarily a training plan, but do you advocate journaling and keeping these things in a written form?

Jarryd: I do, and we actually have these….

It's funny you mention a training plan. We have these questions on our weekly training plan format. So at the end of the week, they have to write an answer to these questions at, as in, as a reflection on the whole week. "What did I do well?" "What could I improve?" "What action am I going to take?"

And then at the end of competitions, what we often do is get together as a team in a circle and share these reflections or form little groups and get five people to share them with each other.

And I found that very powerful because when you are doing it in a supportive team environment where it is a safe space and everyone trusts each other and everyone's on the same page, it takes a bit to build that with consistency, but you can get there. Then you might learn something from this event, but when you've got 17 other teammates all having their own experience in the event, you actually capture lessons from them as well.

You get 17 times the lessons, and then you might discover that, “Oh, I'm not the only person that felt nervous today”. Other people are dealing with it too. I'm not alone in this. So I really like the idea of self-reflection. Journaling is really great. It helps people process. But then I, I also personally like to facilitate that sharing within a team environment, so that you can amplify the lessons learned and also cultivate that sense of community.

Manisha: This question goes back to some of the biometric…

Jarryd: Hmm….

Manisha: …stuff we were talking about earlier. Is there something a parent does or could do that would inadvertently spike their athlete's or their Archer's heart rate or nervousness?

Jarryd: Well, yeah, it, it could be lots of things. Like it could be their presence, you know, but then for someone else, their presence might be soothing. Or it could be... I, I think the biggest thing that I would say is the sitting on the scope or watching the live scores pop up and then giving the thumbs up, thumbs down facial expressions, that sort of feedback is going to make them nervous, because it draws immediate attention to the outcome.

And any coach will tell you that the process leads to the outcome and the focus should be on the process. So when you have a parent sitting there giving that kind of feedback, it's always a battle between bringing the Archer back to what they should be focusing on, and then the parent who's intentionally or not just directing them straight back to the outcome.

Usually when I explain this to parents, they understand that and then they'll adapt their behaviour. But, that's the thing I would draw parents' attention to most is that outcome-based feedback is not helpful.

Manisha: So what are the differences between outcome-based compared to process-based goals?

What are the difference between those?

Jarryd: Yeah. So I mean, both are important, and I encourage people to actually do outcome, process, and experience goals for any event. So an outcome goal is obviously like a result, and that could be anything from like a placing or a medal, or a podium finish, or a record or whatever.

It could also be something like, "I want to keep my grouping within the red or better." You know, it doesn't always have to be the final result. It could be, "Every six arrows that I get inside the red is a win." You know, shorter timeframe. So that's some examples of outcome goals. Process goals are more like what you do within yourself.

What are you going to focus on internally that's within your control? Because sometimes the outcome is out of your control, but the process is always within your control. So what are you going to focus on shot to shot? And I suggest two things is the sweet spot. Three things is often too many, but one thing is not enough.

You'll think about it and your mind will wander, so you need two things to focus on, and that could - that will vary from Archer to Archer. What it should be is the Archer should be confident that if they do those two things correct, that it's going to be a good shot. So it's what does the Archer do to make a good shot happen? And they can be reminded of that all day long. That's what they should be thinking about.

And one of my most common bits of feedback to Archers during events is to walk up to them and say, "What's your process focus?" And if they say, "Um," first, they've lost it, because it should be on the tip of their tongue.

It should be alignment and timing, or whatever. And if they go, "Um, uh, oh yeah, it's alignment and timing." Like, they know what it is, but it's left the tip of their tongue and they've probably deviated from it. So, the question again snaps them back to it. I don't have to walk up and go, "Focus on alignment. Focus on timing."

The question directs their focus, so that's process focus. And then the third one, what did I say? Was experience goals.

Manisha: Mm-hmm.

Jarryd: And this is what you hope to learn or gain from the experience of the event. And I think this is underrated because often what people do when they're feeling a bit nervous about an event is they will actually create a little bubble to sit within and they'll try and block themself off from external factors.

That's fine, but it also kind of closes you off to learning from the experience of the overall event. And I think having a, an experience goal explicitly stated before the event opens you up to — it changes your mindset from stopping losing to, "Hey, I'm here to learn”, and “the event's not only about the outcome”, “it's also about the experience and what I have to learn."

And that can be equally as personal. It can be something technical or tactical like, "Okay, well, this is my first outdoor competition for the season, and I haven't shot at this range before, so my experience goal could be to pay attention to the changing wind conditions and understand that."

Or it could be: my experience goal is to make a new friend today or meet someone on my target that I've never talked to before. And, it can be very personal, but I think framing it in that way actually defines when you set a goal, you actually define success. So you're actually — you can define success in multiple ways by outlining the process, outcome, and experience goals in that manner.

Manisha: I've said previously, sometimes just showing up, walking to the registration desk, getting your bib number, attaching it to your quiver… (“FUTURE FOCUS: FOSTERING ARCHERY AT THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN CLASSIC https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/rmc/)

Jarryd: Mm…

Manisha: …is a goal. It can be, like you said, "I'm going to talk to two people today. I'm going to make a friend today." "I'm going to put my equipment together…

Jarryd: Yeah

Manisha: …by myself today."

Jarryd: Mm.

Manisha: It can be — it can be just like that even.

Jarryd: Yeah, or, or "if I make a mistake, I'm going to reset".

Manisha: Yes.

Jarryd: Or, "if something doesn't go to plan, I'm going to do this". "I'm going to do this to get back on track", or "I'm going to take a deep breath before every shot". It can be very broad, and I think, as a coach, you can start to — well, parents as well, I think can also start to facilitate those sort of discussions.

Like, "Hey, what do you hope to learn from this event?" It's a great question to ask. And, what I've found is that it takes a bit of practice, especially for kids to tap into that sort of thinking because they're not often asked these things in their day-to-day life. What do you hope to learn? They're often told, "Learn this, do this," you know, at school, they're given a very strict curriculum to follow.

And that it might take a little bit of practice, but stick with it and you can say, "Well, it's your first event of the season. Are you hoping to do this? Are you hoping to learn this?" And you can give them suggestions and they'll latch onto something that resonates with them. So they don't have to know the answer immediately.

We can help guide them.

Manisha: After listening to this episode, what are you hoping that a parent will walk away with? What's one thing that maybe a parent could change…

Jarryd: Hmm….

Manisha: …in their support of their Archer after listening to this episode?

Jarryd: I think the most important thing is that philosophy of supporting the Archer to experience growth as a priority.

So their experience in the sport is broader than just the results of any one event. But, that — what sport can give them is the opportunity to face adversity, overcome that, develop self-confidence, develop resilience, develop that internal locus of control, and so that when they go forth in the world for the rest of their life, they can carry those skills with them, and they can be well-equipped to handle whatever curve balls come their way.

It comes down to if parents adopt that philosophy, then I'm confident that they will support their kids to approach problems in that manner.

Manisha: Is there a myth of High Performance that you want to debunk?

Jarryd: Hmm. Yeah, I think the myth of High Performance is that there's some secret technique or there's some secret skill that you must know to get better.

You know, what I've learned is that it's all about the fundamentals, and when you look at the high performers in Archery, but in any domain, what you'll notice is that they do the same skills, they're just better at it.

And I say "fundamentals", not basics, because they're not necessarily basic things.

But, if you want to get really, really good and get to, like say, a High Performance level, you have to expose yourself to higher levels of competition, and you have to surround yourself and immerse yourself in an environment of high performance. And, that means that if you're winning every competition you're in the wrong competitions.

You know, you need to step up a league, and you need to challenge yourself and, and no one wins every competition in this sport. So I think the myth of High Performance is that, yeah, there's some secret technique out there that's going to make you better, and you just gotta hunt for it. It's like, no, no, no, no.

You're better off knuckling down, mastering the basics, getting obsessed with posture and alignment and anchor and timing and, you know, the basic things, and, then exposing yourself to higher levels of competitions and searching for ways to expose yourself to higher levels of competition and pressure.

Manisha: How do you feel about — and whose decision is it to move an Archer into a higher age category or a further distance?

Jarryd: You mean ahead of when they would by age category?

Manisha: Yes, so if….

Jarryd: Like when someone's doing very well in Under 14 division, moving up to Under 16…

Manisha: Yes.

Jarryd: …for example?

Manisha: Yes.

Jarryd: Okay. This is a good question.

I think, it comes down to individuals. Obviously, the biggest thing in Archery is the distance requirement for those younger divisions, and what's dangerous is if an Archer's pushed up a division before they're ready.

It particularly encourages them often to shoot higher poundage to make the distance before their form and physicality has been developed to a level where they can handle it, and that can undermine their long-term progress, if it builds in bad habits.

So I think generally, no. But there are exceptions to this. So for example, everyone is developing at a different rate, right? So some kids are well ahead in terms of physical development, and they've got the solid technical base, and so that's not an issue. But for example, next year is another Youth World Championships year in 2027.

So I've got some Archers that are shooting Under 16 division this year, but next year will move up into Under 18s. And so we've already done the skill development work, we've already done the physical strength training, and built them up to that. And then in the second half of this year, we will start to practice those longer distances and start to shoot some, say, qualifying events and local competitions, upper division, so that they can be ready to, say, go for the trials for Youth World Championships.

So, that’s one consideration. Another situation is where that poundage factor isn't an issue, but where their current division isn't giving them any challenge. If there's 50 points between them and the closest competition, well, they might be better off shooting in an open division, okay?

And I've done that as well, particularly for indoor competitions where the distance is not a factor, is challenging some Archers to shoot up into a more competitive division just to gain that exposure to a higher level of challenge. It has to be considered with their long-term development, their goals, and their stage of progress as well.

Manisha: Is there something that a parent can do to ensure, as much as they can, that their Archer has a lifelong love for Archery?

Jarryd: To ensure that they have a lifelong love for Archery is not really up to the parent, unfortunately. I think making sure that it's a positive experience and making sure that their sense of ego is not being attached and self-identity is not being attached to the outcome.

Because as soon as they're not winning anymore, that's going to just crumble and they're not going to make it. But if they're doing Archery for the right reasons, if they're passionate about it, if they enjoy training, they have a support network around them, they have friends at Archery, they're training productively, they have a good relationship with their coach, then I think, yeah, you have all the ingredients for the Archer to be a lifelong Archer.

It keeps coming back to that internal security of the Archer and not cultivating their ego attached to the outcome.

Manisha: Is there anything that you wanted to share that I missed asking you about?

Or, is there anything that you wanted to share outside of what we've talked about?

Jarryd: The only thing we haven't touched on has been ages for specialization…

Manisha: Yes.

Jarryd: …and how parents can, can guide this, because I think as well, there's lots of research on this actually, and I think as well you're familiar with this.

But one thing I see particularly in Archery that's different from other sports is I did my strength and conditioning accreditation a couple of years ago, and as part of that I had to go and do, like a mentorship, series of sessions with other sports coaches.

And I was, looking at some powerlifters and some volleyball players and some soccer players, and what became immediately apparent with these youth athletes from other sports is that these are multi-sport athletes.

They're doing volleyball and then they're doing swimming, and then they're doing, touch football and then they're doing javelin, and whatever, other track and field. And so I think in other sports there's a lot more multi-sport athletes, whereas in Archery, what I usually see is that we're dealing with normal people, and there's less of that cross-pollination with other sports where they develop a more well-rounded athletic potential.

So I think in Archery, that should be encouraged, particularly in the younger age groups, to not specialize so early (‘THE LONG GAME: WHY 4X OLYMPIAN CRISPIN DUEÑAS BELIEVES IN "LEAVING THEM ALONE” https://www.archeryparentpodcast.ca/the-long-game-why-4x-olympian-crispin-duenas-believes-in-leaving-them-alone/), but particularly before the age of 12, kids should do sport for fun.

They should be exposed to anything you can get them to try. You know, get them into gymnastics and swimming and ball sports and karate and piano and chess and whatever they're prepared to have a crack at, like sign them up.

And then, I think the guidance is that between the ages of 12 and 16, they can gravitate towards their interests. So maybe they're like, "All right, I want to do Archery and violin," and then they can gravitate towards that. And then if they want to specialize, if then, 16 is usually the right time.

And if you specialize too early, particularly in Archery, you might be a good Archer, but you are unlikely to develop the finer, maybe more less obvious things about your athletic potential that actually hold you back from getting to a very high level anyway. You know, I know some Archers that are pretty good, but they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because they never learned how to coordinate their themselves.

And then you have someone who's done gymnastics or martial arts or dancing from a young age, and they — they're just so easy to teach skills and they just, they master everything because they have this high level of balance and proprioception and core control and upper body strength and mobility. Well, they have all the prerequisites there.

It's just about adapting it to Archery. They have such an advantage. So the only other thing I wanted to mention is the importance of exposing them to a broad spectrum of sports and other things that develop their well-rounded athletic potential.

Manisha: Why do you think, because I've noticed that too, it seems like as soon as someone turns that switch on in Archery, they've self-imposed that they cannot do anything else.

Jarryd: I think Archery's a very time-consuming sport, especially if you want to be competitive. The amount of time it takes to shoot the arrows you have to shoot is prohibitive to doing other things. That is a logistical challenge to manage.

I also think Archery is one of those sports, there are several, but it's one of those sports as well that doesn't have a specific body type. And I know it's not exclusively the case, there are plenty of very athletic Archers, but there are also some Archers that, are good at Archery, but they were rubbish at tennis, can't dribble a soccer ball, can't throw, can't squat, can't do anything else.

But for whatever reason, Archery's their thing and they get into it. It sits in that category of sports where it's not necessarily as intense in terms of athletic potential as some other sports. So you get a mix of people who don't have that broader athletic potential or experience, and you also have, well, the — that it's very time-consuming, it tends to just suck up all of your spare time to pursue Archery.

I think that's why, is a combination of those two factors.

Manisha: Can you tell us what your Masterclass is all about?

Jarryd: Yes. So the Masterclass is basically my online coaching curriculum, and I use this to coach my students domestically as well as, I think we have members from over 20 countries now. When I started doing YouTube videos, what I realized was that no one has access to this kind of information.

Like, some of this stuff is very obvious and some of it is opaque, and there are people all around the world that don't have access to see coaching case studies and examples, or understand the principles from — or, or the fundamental skills from first principles. They don't know which drills to do. They don't know how to train. All they know is what they know.

So very early on, I had this concept of we need a accessible, comprehensive coaching curriculum, and nothing really existed in that space. So that's why I created it, and it's been really awesome to see the response from people who have signed up.

It's been pretty humbling because there's people from all around the world who are getting pretty good results and, actually, a lot of coaches sign up for it, which comes back to your point before about coaches wanting to develop their knowledge and skill set further and getting second opinions.

And we have a really great group — community group where people will ask questions and sometimes before I've seen a question, six other coaches have jumped in and provided really valuable feedback. Things that I didn't notice either. So I'm really proud of that, and I also use it to coach my domestic students because we have a very large squad, and when you're coaching in a team dynamic rather than one-on-one, it's actually very difficult to explain skills from first principles to them.

And so how we use it is we get the students to do the modules and complete the study of the individual skills, and when they come to training, then they get specific feedback on what they need to do. But they already have this broad foundational understanding of those concepts, and more often than not, they solve problems for themselves.

Manisha: And how do people get more information about the Masterclass?

Jarryd: There's a website. It's linked on the Rogue Archery website, or they can just go to ArcheryMasterclass.com and check it out. You can see the whole course curriculum there. It's no secrets. And you can preview some of the modules for free and see if it's the right fit or if you hate the sound of my voice, then don't sign up because there's a lot of that.

So, yeah, then just go check out the ArcheryMasterclass.com website.

Manisha: And we'll include all of those links. As you know, because you've listened to a few episodes, there are two questions that I ask every guest, and they have to do with travel.

Jarryd: Yeah.

Manisha: So Australia being where it is located, you do a lot of travel and you have in your Archery career.

The first question is: what is your best travel tip?

Jarryd: Get as much sleep as you can in your bed, because you might be able to close your eyes on a flight and lose consciousness, but it's not restful sleep. And yeah, we always have long-haul flights and everything, and I've seen people do things like, try and stay awake to the time zone that they're adjusting to, or try and stay awake so that they're so tired that they can fall asleep on the flight, and they always get to the other side wrecked.

So I would say no, get as much sleep as you can before the flight. After the 40-hour transit or whatever you end up doing, then, you know, just adapt to the local time zone and sync up there. But, that is my number one tip for long-haul flights.

Manisha: And the second question I always ask is, what is the one, or more, item that you never leave home without?

Jarryd: Well, I've recently got this, thing called a Sleeper Hold pillow (https://sleeperhold.com/?srsltid=AYCX9vIzNb3mrQB1fm6FxFft5q_ew39og2JChExrzQuOIeD1MLaVfrkW), which actually straps your head into the airline seat rather than having those neck pillows where your neck's bobbing around. And, that's allowed me to actually sleep on a flight, even if it's a subpar sleep. And for those long flights, again, we're talking 20-plus hours, that's something that I now always take on those long flights.

Manisha: So how long would it take to get from Brisbane, say, to Antalya? Because Antalya, Türkiye, they are hosting all the time. How long would that flight be?

Jarryd: 20-something hours. 24, 28 hours maybe. Yeah.

Manisha: Do you have any specific tips for long-haul flights?

So many Archers are used to, six, seven, eight, up to 10 hours.

Jarryd: Mm,.

Manisha: But you being a regular on long haul, how is it different when you're travelling shorter versus long haul?

Jarryd: Yeah. So, the long-haul flights, big one is the sleep beforehand, and get as much quality sleep either side of the flight as possible.

Nutrition is really important, and hydration, because, when you're on the flights, they often restrict the water they give out because otherwise people are going to the bathroom every five minutes, and so they give you these tiny little cups of water every couple of hours. Take a big water bottle, fill it up, stay hydrated, because the pressurized cabin air is very dry.

You also, want to take some nutritious snacks and food. Depending on which airline you're with, sometimes the food is all right now, and they give you proper meals, and sometimes they give you stuff that my dog would turn its nose up at. So just being proactive with nutrition and having nutritious snacks and things as well.

And, not pigging out on — not taking it as an excuse to pig out on junk food or, yeah, drink alcohol and stuff like that on flights, which you think athletes would know, but I've seen all kinds of things as well.

Manisha: Thank you for your time. Was there anything else that you wanted to — that maybe popped into your head that you wanted to share?

Jarryd: No, we've covered a lot of ground. I think that's really good.

Manisha: We have. We covered Parent Agreements. We talked about Struggle Street. We talked about happiness and how…

Jarryd: Mm-hmm.

Manisha: …different that is from fulfillment. We've talked about being a support crew, the car ride home, specialization.

I'm so grateful that you took the time to do this today, and I — I’m very happy that you've helped me bring together several episodes into one and reinforced these messages and, and sharing your Masterclass for anybody in the world.

Because like Australia, Canada is huge, and in Canada, we are predominantly along the border, and so there are so many people in other parts of Canada that do not have access to coaching. So your ability to provide them with YouTube videos and potentially one-on-one, if they need, it is so important and such a great way to grow the sport and the community on a global level.

So thank you for doing that.

Jarryd: Oh, it's my, my pleasure. I love it, actually, so it's no problem for me. But yeah, thank you very much for connecting. I really enjoyed this chat.

Manisha: I'm Manisha. That is Jarryd. We are doing this one arrow at a time. We will see you again next time.